Future of XIVRO

[Dazzu]

Greetings everyone,

 

I would like to start by expressing my utmost gratitude to everyone who has stuck with us since XIVRO launched. This would not have been possible without the community's support.

 

This is a lengthy post that provides historical context to XIVRO's state and the direction we will take. I suggest reading through it. However, the actual news will be at the bottom part of this post.

 

To some people who may not be familiar with me, I was DarkRO's sub-administrator before I transitioned to XIVRO. During my time as a DarkRO staff, I mostly wrote scripts and implemented items. My privileges were not as far reaching as players thought back then. Still, I attempted to fix and improve the server in any way I can, adding new content through scripting and item implementation. Matias also applied a lot of class balancing based on the development team's recommendations. Unfortunately, the server's problems ran deeper than what I was allowed to do and its state continued to gradually decline. I left around 2017 due to frustrations of not being able to do anything meaningful, on top of piling stress from university. Understandably, Matias wasn't around as often as I would have liked, due to personal and work issues. I definitely could have put in a lot more effort, or even asked for the reins. However, due to my lack of administrating experience, I honestly was definitely not ready for it. Eventually, DarkRO "died" from the lack of... everything, and that was that.

 

Last year, we had the idea to "revive" DarkRO, not as a new server, but to gain ownership of the server and massively improve it from within. I started sending Matias emails, attempting to connect back with him. We also attempted to contact Maurice, the founder of DarkRO, to ask for the domain and rebuild the server from the bottom up if we were not successful in obtaining the server. There were some replies and promises from the former, that he agrees to transitioning the administration after the New Year's. We waited until late January to early February, but we never received any reply after. Our frustrations grew to the point where we decided to just create a new server and build our own image. However, amidst our decision, we never disregarded the possibility of them going through with it.

 

At the start of XIVRO's development, we were approached by Brenth (who is now known as Anakin) and offered to implement the source code of one of his previous DarkRO clones with a $1600 price tag. In addition to this offer, he also required us to grant him an administrator role. Brenth already has a reputation of destroying other servers at this point, and we decisively declined his offer and banned him from the discord. During this time as well, we reached out to former DarkRO players about this new server we are building. It garnered a lot of interest, and the Discord server eventually became populated. During the middle of development, rebirth's staff, most notably James and Anakin(Brenth) joined the server and started poaching members to their server that they claimed is DarkRO. Of course this worked and a significant number of members in the XIVRO discord moved. It was disheartening, but we moved on anyway. We owed it to our players to at least push forward to where are at at right now.

 

Given the context leading to our situation and recent news that I am about to share, we have hit a crossroad that will significantly impact the future of the server. Nothing has been set in stone yet; however, we are currently facing a very difficult dilemma that we believe we should be transparent with and XIVRO players have the right to know.

 

Recently, we received huge news from both Matias and Maurice. Maurice agreed to transfer the domain ownership to myself. As of right now I currently hold and am the owner of the domain dark-ro.net. Matias also agreed to transfer DarkRO's administration, and we are in the process of obtaining DarkRO. I currently possess DarkRO Force and Pie's source codes, website, and wiki files, and we are just waiting for the server's database files.

 

This is development is bittersweet. We have finally obtained DarkRO and are given the opportunity to push through with that we originally intended to do. On the other hand, it also means absolute uncertainty with XIVRO's future. However, what is certain is that we will push to revive DarkRO as well as continue XIVRO's development, how we'll do the former is still a point of contention.

 

Upon obtaining DarkRO, we also inherited a broken economy caused by more than decade of botting and illegally obtained items made by corrupted staff members well before my time. If we are to revive DarkRO, we will have to wipe the database to work with a clean slate. I understand that DarkRO players would not want to start over. However, it is necessary in order to create a better economy. We also had in mind to use XIVRO's database instead, but it also presents complications that makes the option not ideal.

 

I'll admit that we made a huge mistake reworking the refinement system in conjunction with an easily obtainable end-game gear system. It allowed players to gain an ample amount of end-game items with maximum refinements in a very short time. We also implemented various systems that also allowed for easier end-game gearing. As a consequence for this disastrous oversight, XIVRO's economy was broken in a way that gears have too little value and zeny is too abundant. Unfortunately, this result disqualifies using XIVRO's database directly as DarkRO's starting database as it would be unfair for new players. The current XIVRO economy sadly will not be compatible with what we want for DarkRO. If and when we revive DarkRO, we will approach it in a slightly different way that will allow for an actual economy to grow - this means stripping off or reverting some of the revamped systems that XIVRO currently have.

 

As much as it pains me to accept, the best option that we are currently presented with for DarkRO is to use XIVRO's development path after modifying current systems to prevent ending up with the same economy XIVRO currently have. However, the item database will be wiped and everyone will start over. It is very understandable for players to raise their concerns. It is well within their rights given the situation and the amount of effort they have put into playing XIVRO. This also applies to DarkRO players as well and their decade-long efforts. To expand on what specific changes we'll make and carry over to DarkRO's development, a list of proposed changes are listed below:

• Enforce a single client
  • A significant issue that plagued XIVRO was the allowance of dual-clienting. This led to certain exploits (such as MvP hunting and various questing). In order to address this issue, we will be enforcing a single client on both the client-side and gepard-side as well.
• Reverting MVP room
  • The following MvPs/mini-bosses will be removed:
    • Thanatos
    • Ghostring
    • Deviling
• Keep and expand modified cards
  • With MvP cards being taken out of circulation, modified common cards would present a significant use.
  • Additionally, we will also further add modified common cards to closely line with some MvP cards, offering lesser but still viable alternatives.
• Remove the XIV points system
  • The XIV points system's purpose was to provide a some sort of participation reward for possible competition during MvP hunts. However, this system was heavily exploited by dual logging. We also failed to add some limitations, like a daily cap, to prevent excessive hunting.
• Simplify Icarus Weapons' edp & buff system
  • Ideally, we will further condense the buffing system to something more singular. Since we consider damage buffs , specifically EDP and MOT, to be essential on the PvP environment, we will merge the effects into a single item (most likely be changed to an accessory) and rework the related cards.
  • This change will still prevent the monopolization of essential cards as well as promote weapon diversity.
• Revert refinement system to its original state
  • A huge oversight that we failed to act on was the implementation of the improved refinement system in conjunction with the simpler gear quest system and the XIV points system. The combination of these features allowed players to mass produce and max refine end-game gear in a very short amount of time. This is a fundamental issue as RO features a horizontal progression - where all gears are similar to some varying degree and newly introduced gears are only a slight improvement to the current release set.
  • Reverting this system will allow for a slower progression, in addition to, and more important, placing market values to refined equipment.
• Retain but slightly increase difficulty of obtaining valkyrie equipment and wings
  • This system is a huge leap with regards to gear progression and accessibility of end-game items. DarkRO locked their end-game gears behind an exhaustive and complex quest system that is also gated by castle drops.
  • While we are retaining this system, we will slightly increase the difficulty of questing to stagger initial mass productions.
• Remove the yggdrasilberry and box of thunder from the supplier NPC and re-implement it to a "farm" room.
  • A part of DarkRO's main market back then was the supplies market - more notably yggdrasilberries and boxes of thunder. We took this out in XIVRO and added it to the supplier NPCs as we deemed it essential. However, this completely removed the supply market as its market price is cheap in relation to ease of zeny grinding.
  • Creating a "farm" room for yggdrasilberries (and possibly box of thunder), will allow for re-establishing a market and better monitoring.
• Remove the "gold" room
  • The concept of a gold room is fundamentally flawed that is often exploited by botters or macro users. While we have the luxury of gepard, we should not absolutely depend on it as it's not without faults.
• Add zeny, exp, supply(?) rewards to various daily quest NPCs
  • With the removal of the gold room, we'll extensively modify some daily quest NPCs to reward levels, zeny, or possibly supplies.
  • This modification allows an alternative way to level as well as provide a primary method of generating zeny, albeit in a controlled setting.
  • This controlled (through daily caps) allow for a more gradual economic development and staggers zeny inflation.
• Incentives
  • If we decide to go down this route, everyone's progress will be reset. However, we will also provide incentives to XIVRO players for sticking with us thus far.

The overall goal of this option is to develop a healthy economy by enabling easier access to valuable and viable items, while providing a steeper and more staggered challenge for end-game items. However, as previously stated, this comes at a huge cost of players starting over from scratch, aside from the transfer incentives.

 

As of present, we will move forward with adding contents to XIVRO which will be reflected to DarkRO, and attempt to possibly correct the economy to perhaps re-qualify being used as DarkRO's database. Maintaining XIVRO and developing DarkRO at the same time will definitely be an arduous journey, but I am confident that we'll be able to pull it off.

 

tl;dr : we ghosted darkro, hooked up with xivro, then made up with darkro. We're now trying to be in a poly relationship with xivro and darkro.

[Hildeblue]

Quote

Reverting MVP room

• The following MvPs/mini-bosses will be removed:
  • Thanatos
  • Ghostring
  • Deviling

Considering the necessity of gr/devi, little worried about the impact of this on asura meta at first, but pretty reasonable.

Quote

Remove the "gold" room

TOLD YOU ALL IT WAS A BAD IDEA TO ADD IT but good shit, glad we're getting rid of it

Big fan of pretty much everything in the proposed change list. Time to reach endgame, weapon diversity, removing gold room are all huge.

Not looking forward to losing my peony hat, but looking forward to a healthier game environment with more incentive to play. Losing progress will hurt (especially for those who have been playing consistently since release) but I think XIV was a really good learning experience for everyone involved and we'll only have a healthier game as a result of starting fresh.

[Yura]

Just now, Hildeblue#0701 said:

Considering the necessity of gr/devi, little worried about the impact of this on asura meta at first, but pretty reasonable.

Poring Boxes will still retain a chance to summon Ghostring and Devilring.

[Tsuki]

Okay, here's my two few cents and Imma keep it short. I got nothing against the management, I like yall but no. 

Having to develop two servers at once while we're having any to barely progress here would just frustrate both you guys and the players. That'll eat you up, I shit you not.

I think we've all learned, if not, should learn from our own and our predecessor's mistake. Certainly, putting both servers together would end up screwing the economy even more, and turning it to another clean slate would definitely frustrate or rather screw us too. 

There are problems already present, and creating even more rather than finding a solution would be more catastrophic than just simply painting it over and using whatever's already there as a guideline.

I daresay, we pick up our old banner, and fight for that flag which was the actual plan in the first place.

[Sebas]

6 hours ago, Dazzu said:

However, the item database will be wiped and everyone will start over. It is very understandable for players to raise their concerns. It is well within their rights given the situation and the amount of effort they have put into playing XIVRO.

*Just to clarify, I am not against the direction we are headed, whether it be for better or worse only time will tell.*

This is again simply just my two cents on the matter and I don't speak for everyone, however doesn't that mean that going forward it is rather pointless to progress on the current game as it'll be wiped out anyway? I fully understand that it would be completely unfair to newer players if we did not wipe as some of us have obtained gears a hell of a lot easier than what they would have to go through to obtain the same gears. I think that wiping and a new start is the most fair option for everyone BUT several did put in countless hours to get to where they are now and I think this will rub a lot of the players the wrong way and might even make them stop playing the game altogether.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Sebas

[Hildeblue]

Quote

Having to develop two servers at once while we're having any to barely progress here would just frustrate both you guys and the players. That'll eat you up, I shit you not.

I do agree that running both servers in parallel is a bad idea. Delaying interest in DRO til it's "ready" while also demotivating people from playing here is lose-lose.

Quote

I daresay, we pick up our old banner, and fight for that flag which was the actual plan in the first place.

XIV was meant to be the legitimate successor to DRO, Tsuki has a point here. Down the line, the economic issues with the beginning of the server will probably mean less than the interest we might lose by starting fresh. It might be worth to maintain the playerbase we already have in exchange for trying to recover from where we are rather than starting fresh.

Ultimately, there are only a few players who put a TON of time into XIV. Once the playerbase grows (which it inevitably will EXPONENTIALLY with the DRO name) that wealth probably won't mean too much. It might do less harm than alienating the few players who have stuck around since day 1 of XIV.

Quote

several did put in countless hours to get to where they are now and I think this will rub a lot of the players the wrong way and might even make them stop playing the game altogether.

Dazzu said something about an incentive for players to move from XIV to DRO, but there's no effective way to verify that people played here or how much - someone could just make an account here to get the same amount of free stuff as someone who put in hundreds of hours. Is there a plan for scaling rewards?

[Obi]

I suggest keeping DarkRO dead and move on using the current database while slowly reimplementing what you want from DarkRO (Jedi class!).

If you really want to keep its legacy, put it up as an alternative server akin to how DarkRO had both Force and Pie. Starting over is never fun and might put off a lot of players, myself included. I mean I might still play but it's just so disheartening to have to start over again from scratch. And no amount of incentive would ever satisfy long time players of XIV.

P.S. Please don't let the old forum die. I have a lot of memories in it and I like reading old threads from time to time.

P.P.S. Congrats btw. This is a huge predicament you're in but it just makes me happy knowing the old server isn't just going to die the way it did.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Obi
Add P.P.S.

[Hildeblue]

Quote

P.S. Please don't let the old forum die. I have a lot of memories in it and I like reading old threads from time to time.

Yeah, what will blewolf do now that the forum is down?! Poor guy..

[Arrow]

2 hours ago, Dazzu said:

Enforce a single client

This is just my opinion but I firmly think most of the players wouldn't /like/ this implementation if ever this is implemented.

 

2 hours ago, Dazzu said:

If we decide to go down this route, everyone's progress will be reset. However, we will also provide incentives to XIVRO players for sticking with us thus far.

As a player who has been online for every single day since I started XIVRO a week after its launch. I'd say not all of the players would want to start anew even with these /incentives/.

Having two servers running by one admin would put a lot of stress on him. Ngl, Dazzu has been very considerate and patient into putting XIVRO into a better server for everyone but no, one server should just be the only priority of an admin.

These are just my insights as a player.

Anyway, more power to you guys!

[Dazzu]

Just to clarify, we will not be maintaining both XIVRO and DarkRO. XIVRO will eventually turn into DarkRO. Given DarkRO's src code, it won't be feasible to use that as our base engine. We're essentially going to integrate bits and pieces of DarkRO's code into XIVRO's source code.

As for our current options - while wiping the slate clean would be the fairest option, we will still attempt to balance XIVRO's economy. However, this would mean implementing drastic changes on our current and potentially new systems that may take away some of the privileges XIVRO players enjoyed. If people are up for that, and we are are able to fix the economy before DarkRO is ready, then we may be able the current database as DarkRO's. It will all hinge on the players' willingness to sacrifice SOME things for the good of the server.

 

PS: Obi, we'll put the forum back up once I get the files from Matias :d

[Hildeblue]

10 minutes ago, Dazzu said:

It will all hinge on the players' willingness to sacrifice SOME things for the good of the server.

Hypothetically, would this include deleting some items that will become harder to obtain, like Thana card?

[Tsuki]

Just now, Hildeblue said:

Hypothetically, would this include deleting some items that will become harder to obtain, like Thana card?

More on refined items as per how the conversation went in game. It's only been a couple of hours since this was posted, and from my perspective. It isn't looking good.

[beep boop]

I don't mind starting over again, in fact it's probably more exciting as I'll have something to do again. With whatever the management decides to do moving forward, just try to be as transparent as possible with the community and we should be fine.

[Dazzu]

If we attempt to balance the economy, we won't be deleting anyone's items. Most of the changes will be affecting certain features of the server itself. The current existing items, such as Thanatos Card, refined equipments, etc. will not be directly impacted.

[Iroha]

Here's my opinion and like some of here said, I do not have anything against the management. As i keep saying this before, we just lack exposure. For me making things easy / balancing stuff wont be a problem while having good amount of players. Think about it, what if we started at 100+ actives already and it keeps counting? It'll probably be and endless cycle of pvp & woe.

Another thing is you guys keep balancing / changing stuff and all which is good but then it's still the same people who're taking benefit from it or in other words, there's no changes in the population, it's still us. I just really hoped there was an effort for advertising using proper ways of advertising w/ the donations you guys have earned (like i proposed back then, FB advertising for just a week to try).

Now, on the wipe thing and if it really happens, i guess it's good for a fresh start but then it'll pain me that all the time & effort we've spent in XIV won't return, all the ET & Boss hunts we did and all that. I just hope we just go and find a better solution than wiping.

[Chady]

Gosh I missed a lot of stuff Im not sure whats still there and what isnt anymore  
Im surprised with most of it but yeah, once all is stable and okay Id log in. Im just currently killing time with Minecraft.
#needmorepeople still..

[Xerxes]

4 hours ago, Dazzu said:

 

• Remove the XIV points system
  • The XIV points system's purpose was to provide a some sort of participation reward for possible competition during MvP hunts. However, this system was heavily exploited by dual logging. We also failed to add some limitations, like a daily cap, to prevent excessive hunting.

Does this mean I should spend all of my points ASAP so it won't be deleted?

[BaTaS]

I dont understand. If people wants to play they'll play even if other has end gear like DRO days.. i play 2007 on and off.. i cameback 2011 if im not wrong most player have rnd game gear but still manage to catch up because i want to play the server.. samething with us right now.. if people want to play our server it doesnt matter if they start from scartch. Trust me wiping server isnt a good idea.. you'll lose loyal players.. included me.

[WozzyWhite#8639]

Just now, Tsuki said:

Okay, here's my two few cents and Imma keep it short. I got nothing against the management, I like yall but no. 

Having to develop two servers at once while we're having any to barely progress here would just frustrate both you guys and the players. That'll eat you up, I shit you not.

I think we've all learned, if not, should learn from our own and our predecessor's mistake. Certainly, putting both servers together would end up screwing the economy even more, and turning it to another clean slate would definitely frustrate or rather screw us too. 

There are problems already present, and creating even more rather than finding a solution would be more catastrophic than just simply painting it over and using whatever's already there as a guideline.

I daresay, we pick up our old banner, and fight for that flag which was the actual plan in the first place.

I agree with tsuki, you have to correct mistakes not create more problems, Even though reviving dark ro is a tempting offer, but starting from 0 takes away from how tempting it is .....

 

[Hildeblue]

I talked to Jireh and we agreed that while there's no guarantee our population will increase substantially just by having the website, unless there's also an ad campaign plan in the works (which might have limited effects, we'd still have to offer enough incentive for Rebirth players to start over), it's almost guaranteed that we'd lose players by starting over completely.

It could also create a harmful image through word-of-mouth, the disgruntled players (which, so far, looks like everyone who still plays) might tell their friends about the negative experience they had, which would further reduce pop increase.

tl;dr: the more I think about it, the more strongly I am against a db wipe. Just feels like it's destined to do more harm than good.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Hildeblue

[TomHD]

#MakeDarkRoGreatAgain

#BringBackJediAndSith

#MayDazzuBeWithYou

Love it. Makes me get Motivation again POG

[Ben]

I would suggest ironing out the content and economy first then go through the website and advertisement, server wipe is not necessary, new comers will just adjust to whatever the current game has and besides, the current players will surely help new players to gain their gears.

 

Regarding with darkro.net, I think its already late. We have xivro now and the tag "DarkRO" has already been tainted badly but lets just fix the current server and see what will happen in the future, who knows.. things might work out.

[BaTaS]

Decide ASAP if you guys plan to wipe the game so that we dont have to waste our time and move forward..

[Shanx]

you have to keep a "DARKRO" tradition and not change a lot  because the Darkro audience will not like so many changes.

for example:

1 -  many costumes:  

it's just my opinion, but I would like to see everyone with the combo (VH + DW) or (VH + Icarus Wing) or (kages+wings) (Naruto Bandagens) it was very nostalgic.

 

 

2 - Simplify Icarus Weapons' edp & buff system: 

14 hours ago, Dazzu said:

Ideally, we will further condense the buffing system to something more singular. Since we consider damage buffs , specifically EDP and MOT, to be essential on the PvP environment, we will merge the effects into a single item (most likely be changed to an accessory) and rework the related cards.

I prefer it as it was before, and that this accessory did not exist, the damage will be less for everyone, and whoever has it the "cards" will benefit.

 

 

3 - Remove the "gold" room: me and some friends really like to stay there, killing Pecos while listening to music.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHuDg518kyQ

 

look at the number of views of a video from 2 months ago,he took the trouble to make a video teaching not to lose the gold room points,

there are a lot of people who really like to stay there.

this was a very nostalgic room from our "DARKRO" that you want to remove.

 

4 - the game has to be a little easier to get the items because nowadays everyone has little time to play

 

I know that it is very difficult to be a server administrator, each person says something different and it is very difficult to get everyone to like and agree with everything

 

but one thing I'm sure, not change much and keep traditions that many people will like, mainly the "philippines" where the most DARKRO players exist.

 

These are just my insights as a "DARKRO FORCE" worshiper and fan

 

Anyway, more power to you guys!

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Shanx

[WozzyWhite#8639]

As BasTas says, they should make a decision soon since the players hearing this are getting discouraged, some are already looking for other servers, others since they heard the news to debates have not even wanted to enter the Xivro .......

In my opinion: starting from 0 is a great laziness and demotivation for everyone or the vast majority, because it is simple, many are trying Servers to see which one looks like the DarkRo Force. The xivro is one of the most similar to the DarkRo Force. and for eh seen people come from the Rebirth to the xivro because, because they are looking for a darkroForce in xivro and starting again would be disastrous, in my opinion they will only keep trying other ro leaving the xivro behind ...

Although the idea brings nostalgia to several, it would be good to have the dark ro returned but for new players, not for those who are already in xivro, I disagree with the opinion of the administration ... I would suggest moving forward and correcting errors

Thank you, blessings ...