Champion - Steel Body

[Dazzu]

I would like the community's opinion regarding this skill modification proposal for Monk's Steel Body skill. The purpose of this modification is to allow more PvE interactivity with Champions as well as balance their ability to tank and dps. Additionally, this also provides a level of utility in PvP.

Defense Changes

• Remove DEF and MDEF bonus.
• Add a 75% damage reduction from MvPs and MvP slaves.
• Add a 10% damage reduction in PvP.

 

Duration Changes

• Reduce duration to 15 seconds.

 

Mechanic Changes

• Remove Attack Speed penalty.
• Allow skill use.
• While under Steel Body effect, reduce PvE damage dealt by 50% and PvP damage dealt by 25%.

 

Edit: Added PvP Effect

[Chady]

Uugh my mind isnt refreshed enough to imagine this kind of set up but I actually want to try it. 15 seconds might be too short. Or it can become an active skill that you can de/activate at will. Perhaps with a delay.

 

 

Aaaaah Ill sleep for now Ill get back to this.

[Yura]

My only real concern for this is allowing skill use. Also, while not correct from a lore standpoint, I don't have a problem with the Attack Speed not changing upon cast. 

[Dazzu]

The lower duration is aimed at forcing the champion to be more proactive with the buff upkeep. Since there is no toggle option for this skill, a reduced duration might be necessary to manage buffs. Additionally, it acts as a drawback for PvP and allows for enemies a chance to time the effect.

[BaTaS]

Just mvp resistance? You will gonna cry on summon damage in my point  of veiw. 30 sec will be reasonable i think..

Edited May 20, 2020 by BaTaS#0565

[Ben]

Imagine with this effect, tanking in lhz, those summons will kill you.

[Obi]

I'm going to be honest, I don't understand why you insist on making MVP hunting harder. It is one of the easiest content on most servers and it should be as it is the bread and butter of most players with Instance farming catering towards end game players. I feel like it should just be left as it is currently (I'm leaning more towards making the more common MVPs easier to farm to allow additional solo content) and just focus on releasing more instances as harder content. There's tons you can do with instances and quests that doesn't require changing vanilla skills to make it harder.

[Roseta]

17 hours ago, Dazzu said:

I would like the community's opinion regarding this skill modification proposal for Monk's Steel Body skill. The purpose of this modification is to allow more PvE interactivity with Champions as well as balance their ability to tank and dps. Additionally, this also provides a level of utility in PvP.

Defense Changes

• Remove DEF and MDEF bonus.
• Add a 75% damage reduction from MvPs.
• Add a 10% damage reduction in PvP.

 

Duration Changes

• Reduce duration to 15 seconds.

 

Mechanic Changes

• Remove Attack Speed penalty.
• Allow skill use.
• While under Steel Body effect, reduce PvE damage dealt by 50% and PvP damage dealt by 25%.

 

Edit: Added PvP Effect

i like.
Back Mvp for Orignal in RO, Remove Drop  C box and ligth of icarus and Original Respaw too

Edited May 20, 2020 by Roseta

[Dazzu]

2 hours ago, Obi said:

I'm going to be honest, I don't understand why you insist on making MVP hunting harder. It is one of the easiest content on most servers and it should be as it is the bread and butter of most players with Instance farming catering towards end game players. I feel like it should just be left as it is currently (I'm leaning more towards making the more common MVPs easier to farm to allow additional solo content) and just focus on releasing more instances as harder content. There's tons you can do with instances and quests that doesn't require changing vanilla skills to make it harder.

 

It's to combat solo hunting through dual logging. We can enforce the single-client policy on Gepard, but that's just one part of the problem that needs to be fixed.Champion tanking in its current state is too easy and monotonous since they're essentially just walking, sturdy punching bags. As a consequence, it has been exploited by dual loggers. I strongly disagree with making overworld MvPs soloable as it's one of the main features of the server. While the hunt board needs a bit more fixing, it should be the primary method for solo hunters to gather points.

 

Also, I forgot to consider minions as well. Changed "Add a 75% damage reduction from MvPs." to "Add a 75% damage reduction from MvPs and MvP slaves.".

[Sebas]

I may be wrong but I don't think people really solo MVPs much anymore as there is no real merit in doing so. With the @findparty/@registerparty command in place and as well as individual drop chances on Cboxes and Light of Icas being implemented, it is far more efficient to find a group to hunt with. The only time people would still really solo MVPs is when there is absolutely nobody hunting. Now, you mention that tanking is too easy and monotonous but that statement also applies to the DPS, like snipers. It is still the same, buff up and attack the boss and wait till it dies.

 

If we agree with the notion above that most people would prefer to group up rather than solo hunt (to save time and for efficiency) and let's say that champions got this change so that steel is now 15 seconds - if I am a person who wants to dual log, I would still dual log with a priest + champ and just buff myself and focus on my champ tanking. Or If I am one of the archer dps, I'd still dual log with archer +another support. The changes on champ will not have accomplished anything. Dual loggers would still dual log. The proposed changes to champ only serve to handicap solo players who want to dual log but doesn't do much for those who decide to party up.

 

I think there probably exists a method more ideal to combat dual logging. Steel body and the way MVPs are hunted at the moment, in my opinion, does not have too much issues. I just genuinely think there is no real need for changes on steel body. I could definitely be wrong but these are just my current thoughts on Steel Body and the dual logging situation.

[Dazzu]

I agree that the monotony of hunting applies to DPS as well. Admittedly, the current MvP behaviour is a huge contributing factor as to how solo hunters are able to dual-log or even duo/trio. It will be a significant project that we'll try to implement on the next next maintenance, but we are revamping MvPs as well to add actual, unique mechanics for each boss such that ranged attacks or normal attacking in general will not always be the most ideal method. As a result, this change will ideally require more people to hunt with instead of being able to duo/trio (not necessarily dual logging). Overall, adding more complex mechanics is a higher priority when it comes to increasing overworld MvP Hunting difficulty in addition to improving class mechanics. This also implies reverting some PvE nerfs we have made to some classes.

 

However, regarding the Steel Body proposal specifically, its primary purpose is to break the tanking monotony of the class itself while preserving their ability to tank and give them an ability to dps on a reasonable level. The dual-logging implications is just a hopeful side-effect rather than the main goal.

[Chady]

I have spent almost all of my time here as a Champion tanking MVPs. 
With all its changes nerf or buff I say we keep it as it is right now. I mean, Steel Body has been nerfed along with ranged attacks.
I got excited of the idea being able to cast other skills even in Steel Body but not that I have given some time to think about it I no longer like it.
If the Dual Log is still an issue I agree with Sebas and I do not need to quote him again. I can even dual multiple log but honestly I simply do not enjoy it.
A tank consumes so much zeny with pots already with its current state, surely a tank would want to group with a priest even greater with a paladin.
More snipers would mean a faster kill too so it is really less of a hassle. The problem of who gets the Conq Box has been eliminated already and it was a great implementation.
The only problem now that I could see in dual loggers is when they decide to put their characters in the hunting party warping it to the MVPs map so the chance of getting a CBox increases, 
specially now that the chance will be reduced to 10% as proposed. Now that will take space in the party. 
Let the Champs who want to tank be a tank, let the Champs who want to be a dps be dps by focusing on that, what can a Champ do but Asura the boss? 
So lets play with that. There's no need to complicate it further but if you want Champs to be not monotonous, let their Asura adapt to the current state of the Overworld Bosses.
If I am making sense.. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Chady

[Crackerjack]

The problem with changing steel body is there won't be a reliable tank for MVP hunting. It's monotonous versus convenience. People are not gonna want to do MVP hunts if they would need 5 different classes just to do MVP as the community isn't that big yet. Dual clienting and soloing MVPs is there BUT people refrain from that because it takes WAY too long to kill 1 MVP hence the change in cbox drops.

[Theta]

I haven't tried using champ yet but I think it's good as it is rn, applying these would just be a hindrance to them based on their reactions. Rather than messing with champs, why not try buffing other classes for PvE instead? Pally, LK, Gunslinger or Ninja! (imagine ninja being a tank lol).

As for multi client issue, people will always find ways to beat the system. Surely there must be a way to avoid that (*cough* gameplay mechanics), one example would be having a DoT (-hp%) for every party member except the tank when engaged with a boss. That way they have to use pots now to stay alive (rip zerk users). And to match with that would be death penalties so people won't just stay dead for the entire time. There's lots of ways to change the system that requires participation or team work. Having these would defeat the idea of multi clienting cause it'd be impossible to do with one person.

[Dazzu]

It looks like the general consensus is that Champions are in a good state currently, and that we should be focusing on improving MvP mechanics as well as increase tanking capabilities of other possible tank classes instead - both points I agree with.

I'll  be closing this thread and shelving this proposal. Thank you all for your valuable feedback and don't blame me if MvPs are suddenly extremely challenging .